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Frank vs Tipper and Bart

Subject: record warnings

The Mothers Of Invention were awesome,
but you are spot on as far as Tipper's label crusade.

Parents need to know.
We can't sit and review every damn thing that comes out.
  Danny Detroit

Subject: Tipper and the PMRC...

Bart, I think you would really enjoy the lyrics of the Dead Kennedy's, if not the music.  Very smart band.
Too bad they broke up after after a lengthy and costly court battle set into motion by the PMRC.
The lead singer and the elderly owner of a distribution company faced up to a year in jail for
"distributing harmful matter to minors".

Is that really the reason they broke up?
If the record had a label on it, the store wouldn't/couldn't sell it to kids - problem solved.
 

The jury wasn't impressed (7-5 in favor of aquittal) and neither was the judge who denied a motion for retrial.
The prosecutor has since apologized for his involvement.  Tipper Gore said something to the effect of
"I'd like to think that I was somewhat responsible for (the trial, the charges, etc.)".

I don't believe Tipper wanted artists jailed for lyrics.
 

When Jello Biafra (the lead singer) confronted Tipper on the Oprah Winfrey Show with the newspaper he'd read
that quote in, she chalked it up to being misquoted.  Maybe she was, I don't know, but the question remains -
out all the huge, million dollar acts that were publicly on the PMRC's "most wanted" list, why did they go after
little ol' DK from San Francisco?

If some misguided DA is looking for publicity, that doesn't mean it's wrong to
give clues on the cover of an album about what to expect.
 

Is a conviction easier when the defendants can't afford Robert Shapiro and Johnnie Cochran?

Obviously...
 

Look, I'm not gonna go out and vote Nader because I'm pissed off that Gore's wife may have 
been involved in bringing rather scurrelous charges against one of my favorite bands 20 years ago, 
but Tipper's censorship-apalooza of the 1980's pissed a lot of us music fans off.

-Airbo
 

When was the last time you saw an uncensored movie or TV show?
Why is an "X" on a record with 50 f-words in the lyrics so awful?

Subject: record label warnings

Hi Bart,

I thought those warning labels were a great idea - it saved me
from wasting money on stuff that would not offend people.

 ha ha

Love your site,
Keep on swinging.
 Henry

Subject: record warnings

Bart, you are so right about Tipper Gore's stance then and now.
I had the privilege of having a conversation about that issue with Al Gore.

I was lucky enough to step up to have my photo taken with the VP at a Democratic party event
just when the photographer had to stop and fiddle with the camera.  It gave my time to chat with the VP!
I told him how much I had always admired his wife and how, despite being one of Frank Zappa's most
hard core fans, I agreed with Tipper on that one.  That's when Al Gore told me the Gores and the Zappas
became good friends over time before Frank Zappa died.  It still makes me feel great to know that.

Tipper Gore has taken many courageous stands on a number of important issues.
She's right every time.

A.K. in Boise,
still a fan of Al and Tipper..and Frank Zappa
www.thesnifftest.typepad.com
 

Thanks for that.

Subject: Frank v. Tipper

Bart,

If FZ were still with us, he'd say:

"And the myth of obscenity is a myth that is perpetuated in order to keep a censorship mechanism in place,
because as long as there can be censorship, for one thing or another, as long as they can convince somebody
that you need to have a watchdog to keep the dirty words off the air, then that same watchdog agency will
be able to keep political ideas that are undesirable, or any other kind of social ideas that are undesirable off
the airwaves, and that is the real basis for perpetuating myths of obscenity and all that kind of stuff.
And I try to attack it as often as I can."

And Lenny Bruce would say,

"Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government."

Peter
 

Peter, allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Bart and I have a website and radio show that uses those words all the time.

It's my fault for not being more clear about what we're debating.

I think a label on a record that says, "Language" is a good thing.
I even use that to introduce every radio show on the page.

BCR Show #103 
Listen to it before you share it
There's some language in this one.

That protects a newbie who saw a something clean on the page
and then bought some Hi-Def stereo BCR CDs to share with
Grandma and the kids on the long ride to Jellystone to see Yogi.

Ain't no censorship here.

Note: If you have an "edgy" website, you need Perkel to host it.
He'll fight to let you say whatever and an e-mail from a lawyer won't scare him.

Subject: Down on Tipper

Bart, you wrote,

> Much as I love Frank, he was wrong on this one.
> If I had a 9-year old daughter, would I want her to see "Pulp Fiction?"
> Would I want her to hear Ice-T's "Fuck the Police?"
> Would I want her to read  bartcop.com?

I have to agree with the above about Pulp Fiction.

However, "Fuck the Police" is a valid point, imo.

For a 9-year old?
 

Police have gotten way out of control, nothing but punks with guns seeking revenge for being
picked on in high school,  they also think they are much smarter than everyone, always talking down
to people, then they go home and smoke the Green Bud they forgot to put into evidence, beat-off to
porn they confiscated,  have their 4 year old set off the illegal fireworks they acquired, then get
piss drunk and beat the crap out of their gay lover.

The worst part is the "code of honor" in which the stand-up cops cover for the corrupt ones.
Makes them just as guilty imo.  The requirements should be more than a highschool education and a pulse.
Americans need to utilize what 4th and 5th Amendment rights they have left.  FUCK THE POLICE!!!

Reading portions of bartcop to form their own opinion is acceptable to me.

I still say the weapons inspectors should have been allowed to search longer.

AL GORE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!
KEEP YOUR HAMMER HARD!

California Dave

Subject: Against Frank on the record-rating-labeling issue

Bart,

You're not going to argue for the "let the government do our parenting for us 
and the hell with free speech" side, are you?

CY in PA
 

No, and why, after 1900 issues and 10-plus years would you think I was?

Subject: Volume 1916 sidebar commentary

As the father of a now 23 year old daughter I just laughed at the thought of trying to tell 
young girls what is good for them! You are truly an idealist!

I have no kids, that's for sure.
 

Trying to control the moon and the stars would be easier! It's so comical when a non-daughter parent 
comes out with these old fashoned ideas about censorship as if they are trying to protect the chastity 
and innocence of a young women. So although I do respect you immensly for the couragous stand that 
you make every week against the evil that has befallen our great nation, I have to speak up on this one!

When your daughter was nine, she got no supervision at all?
I find that hard to believe.
 

1. You may think that your daughter is going to be the next Jonas Saulk at age 9, but by age 13 
she will be MORE INTERESTED IN BOYS and what her friends think. So, to go item by item, 
here are some opinions of my own for your consideration.

> If I had a 9-year old daughter, would I want her to see "Pulp Fiction?"
*1.) I did not want my daughter to see Pulp Fiction, but she managed to see it a friends house and just hid 
the fact from me so I would not be angry. Being a father in a feminist dominated culture makes it impossible 
to get respect from your daughter. When everything that they see and read tells them that men are oppressive 
and controlling and women hating, why should they give a fig about what your rules and opinions are?

> Would I want her to hear Ice-T's "Fuck the Police?"
*2.) You are showing your age here Bart. Obviously you have not watched the Madonna "Truth or Dare" 
video/movie that came out years after NWA's excellent song about racial profiling. If you think the word "Fuck" 
is a threat to our daughters equalibrium, perhaps you should volunteer at Planned Parenthood sometime to get a 
bit of perspective on that concept. Little girls know what sex is and where babies come from by age 4 or 5. 
(mothers of daughters in the audience, help me out here)

Pulp Fiction and Truth or dare were both rated "R," which means 9-year olds can't get in.
 

> Would I want her to read  bartcop.com?
*3.) I think that bartcop.com would be an excellent source of alternative opinions to counter the mind-numbing 
television that most kids watch today. I would recomend it to anyone of any age. The truth never goes out of style, 
even if sometimes it's not pleasant to look at or think about. That is an important lesson for both boys and girls. 
We live in dangerous times and there is no room for illusions.

But we often talk about adult things here.
I might let my 9-year old read bartcop.com because he would have grew up hearing it first-hand.
That's why Mrs Bart doesn't read it - she hears the uncensored version every day :).
 

So I say, Tipper and Phillis and Jerry and the rest of the ex-moral minority can go straight to the hell reserved 
for people who mess up other peoples lives because they think that they are more "moral" than the rest of us, 
and use the Bible to justify thuggery and judicial intimidation. 

Tipper is very different from Phillis and Jerry.
 

In the eighties, Tipper attacked the indie and what is today called the "alternative" music scene by using her 
political position and influence with the help of the mass media to scupper small independent record labels and 
anti government musicians, (just ask Jello Biafra, he will give you an earfull). The irony is that all we punkers 
and new wavers who were political way back then WARNED YOU about what would happen if these people 
get too much power, but did the yuppies listen? NO. AND NOW LOOK AT THE MESS WE ARE IN! 

Tipper is responsible for the world we live in?
I think somebody is having a bad day in today's "feminist dominated culture."
 

Perhaps if Tipper and Phillis were not so "moral" back then, more people would appreciate that the current 
political situation (disaster) is nothing more than the END RESULT of a long quest for political control. 
I protested against global warming in 1983, but to listen to the news today, this is a new problem. I'm now 40 
and although I am not very wise, I have learned how people forget the past at the expense of the future. 
So I don't really see how I could loose on this one. I was right in '83 and I'm right now! Where I live in Vermont 
(supposedly the last bastion of liberalism in the country) it's easy to see from the little jockey statues in front yards 
painted in blackface like some bizzare caricature of Al Jolson, that we NEED songs like "Fuck the Police" and we 
NEED to teach our daughters and sons WHY there are songs like that. I once heard it said somewhere that 
"Racism begins at home", so it would follow that so does freedom and equality.

I welcome any public commentary of my opinion.

Thanks for listening, and keep hammering.
Sincerely,
 Ray B.
 

The question isn't, "Should Pulp Fiction, Fuck the Police, truth or Dare" etc be allowed.
The question is, "Is it good or bad to label adult material as such?"

There was more, I ran out of time.
 

 back to  bartcop.com