This is pretty good stuff.
Ben from spinsanity.org  is no ditto-monkey pushover.

My original remarks in bold.

From: Ben from spinsanity.org

Subject: Re: hey from bartcop

Bartcop,

I'd be happy to debate. I think your points are pretty simple to answer:

Excellent opening gambit.
 

> You're saying both sides are equally quilty?
> I don't buy it.

I never said they are always equally guilty. But it's certainly ridiculous to say either side is 100% innocent.
Are you saying Democrats never spin, lie, or exaggerate?

You're speaking in black and white and I'm talking shades of gray.
Mother Teresa and Al Capone were both sinners, right?
One is clearly worse than the other, while your position seems to be, "Everybody sins."
That's why I wrote.
 

> Both sides equally break laws?
> I don't buy it.

>I never said that either. But Democrats and Republicans have both broken
>laws. Since I know you know the Republicans, I'll just mention Dan
>Rostenkowski immediately off the top of my head.

Great example!
Rosty got a little power hungry and greedy, but he didn't fix the 1980 election by
promising missles to Islamic Jihad if they held our hostages a few more months.
Jesus, the fact that you think "Rosty" when it comes to Demo crimes proves my point.
Democrats are into petty theft and illicit sex, while the GOP destroys the Constitution
and does business with Hitler, Saddam, Noriega, Hezzbollah and bin Laden.

Clearly, it's Teresa vs Capone again, but you say "neitherside is 100 percent innocent?"
That's jouralistic malpractice.
You carry water for George Bush when you equate the two.
 

> You equate a blow jobs with arms to terrorists?
> You're not serious!

>What? When did I ever say that? You're putting words in my mouth.

I'm trying to get you-to-admit there are petty thefts and then there are serious felonies.
Blow jobs and arms to terrorists are NOT equal, and I'm asking you to print that
instead of the spineless assertion that "both sides are guilty."

What's the point of claiming "Everybody does it?"
Once you say that in Issue One, what goes in Issue two?
"Everybody's still does it?"
 

> You equate the nine year Jihad against Clinton with the no-attacks on Bush?
> That's laughable.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. Why do you assume I think this?

I simply asked a question, because that assumption is inherent in your "they all do it" position.
It keeps coming back to Teresa vs Capone.
I don't want to read "Everybody sins."
I want to read, "Capone is a monster who needs to be stopped today!"

I'll admit, I didn't read a whole lot of your site.
My guess is 80 percent of the people who drop by will spend 3-5 minutes then move on.
That's the nature of the www.  In the 3-5 minutes I spent there, I saw no positions taken on
serious crimes vs nothing crimes. If you're telling me the serious journalism is buried in the details,
I'll go back a second time and read deeper.
 

It seems, Bart, that you're assuming for some reason that I think for every bad thing Republicans
have done, Democrats have done equally bad things. I'm not saying that, nor are any of us at Spinsanity.

Interesting that you would clearly spell out that which you didn't say.
Wouldn't it be easier to just say it?
Those last two sentences SEEM to say you admit the GOP is worse,
but I have to assume that because you failed to state it clearly.
Looks like the two parties aren't the only one spinning things.
 

But both Democrats and Republicans engage in some spin. Are you denying that?

No, I admit Teresa was also a sinner.
But I'm asking you to focus on Capone's serious crimes, not Teresa's inconsequential sins.
 

We do take a stand at Spinsanity and it's against lying, dissembling, and
distortions from politicians and pundits of all stripes.

Objection!
All I'm asking is that you call an "8" an 8, and call a "2" a 2.
That's all I'm asking.

Of course we all have our political views (which can easily be found by doing
a google search, or even looking at our bios on the site), but the purpose of
Spinsanity is not to attack just Republicans or Democrats.

I'm not asking you to attack "just Republicans."
I'm asking you to attack Bush's huge and dangerous lies with more vigor
than you attack Daschle's spin on the economic package Bush is pushing.

I'm sorry you don't agree that we can have a site that attacks both Republicans and
Democrats for when they cross a line that I think most reasonable people agree shouldn't be crossed.

ha ha
I said that?

I said "you can't have a site that attacks both?"
I think ye doth spin too much.
It's my guess I've pushed you into agreeing that Capone & Teresa aren't equals.
That would seem to make the next debate:
Are the Democrats really Mother Teresa and is the GOP really Al Capone?

But since you went with "Rosty" to counter my "arms-to-terrorists" example,
that question seems already answered.

best,

ben
 

Ben, I enjoyed the debate.
And in the future, I hope to see you attack some lies with a flyswatter
and some with a howitzer and have the wisdom to know which needs which.